Pat Flynn on Whether You Should Start a Podcast in 2024. Insights from Smart Passive Income Podcast Host | Ep #689
Is the fear of failure holding you back from taking the first steps to establish your brand? Are you hesitating to start a podcast because you believe it would only be worthwhile if it garners millions of downloads? Our guest today is a true trailblazer in the podcast industry, having successfully built a thriving agency around his initial decision to create a show dedicated to entrepreneurs. Tune in for an insightful conversation on the power of pushing boundaries and the value of trying new things in the ever-evolving world of podcasting and entrepreneurship.
Pat Flynn is the serial entrepreneur and podcasting pioneer behind Smart Passive Income, a massive podcast with a long history of teaching entrepreneurs proven strategies to run and optimize their businesses. He’s also the founder SPI Media, an agency that helps people launch and grow their brands. Pat’s podcast was actually the inspiration for the Smart Agency Masterclass podcast and now he joins Jason to discuss the importance of taking risks and embracing failure as part of the learning process.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
What’s holding people back from starting a podcast?
Mastering the podcasting game.
3 key principles for brand success.
Letting go to grow: lessons on delegating.
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E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.
Navigating the Evolution of Your Brand and Business
Just like Pat has inspired so many entrepreneurs, he was inspired by the Internet Business Mastery to start his own podcast in 2007. The result was so terrible he never released that episode and it took over a year for him to gather the courage to try again. After finally releasing his first episode in 2010, he’s started several other podcasts and has amassed around 80 million downloads and a massive following.
Much has changed since he chose Smart Passive Income as the name for his brand and “passive income” has recently gained some negative connotations due to influencers promoting the idea of making money without putting in even 1% of the work. As a result, some big brands are hesitant to partner with a business associated with the term.
Of course, this is not what Pat teaches in his content, and, although he is now referring to it as just SPI, a rebrand is probably in the future to welcome as many opportunities as possible.
Currently, Pat is running a business with 11 employees, which is something he never would’ve thought he’d do. Back when he started his business, he dreamt of running a very lean operation working exclusively with contractors.
As the years went by, however, Pat felt a calling to help as many people as possible and he needed to bring the very best talent to the business to help him realize that. Once he had a team, especially his partner and CEO who took over project management and finances, Pat was able to focus on his zone of genius, doing interviews, building relationships, and going to events.
Focusing Too Much on the Numbers: The Misconception Holding People Back from Podcasting
For Pat, the number one reason people refrain from starting a podcast is the fear of wasting time. Things have changed a lot since he started and now it has become such a saturated space that he can’t blame people for thinking theirs may just get lost in the multitude of new releases each day.
Pat challenges agency owners to ask themselves, how many more clients do you need to make a positive impact in your business? Could a podcast help you close more business by attracting potential clients who wouldn’t otherwise find your agency? If the answer is yes, he suggests tailoring podcast episodes to appeal to potential clients and help them feel at ease about engaging with the agency.
In this sense, a podcast would provide the opportunity to define a much deeper relationship with your prospects than you would with a simple YouTube video. It’s quite a powerful connection you can create with a podcast with the way you as the host can become someone’s companion as they travel, walk their dog, or just go about their lives.
Mastering the Podcasting Game: Strategies for Building a Successful Podcast
When it comes to creating a successful podcast that resonates with a wide audience, having a clear vision and set goals is crucial. Merely hoping for a stroke of luck after posting your podcast episodes will likely lead to disappointment and frustration. Therefore, Pat suggests starting with a well-defined purpose and message.
Additionally, he recommends seeking assistance with the editing process early on. Podcasting is a lot of work, from planning to recording and editing and you may end up feeling exhausted, potentially discouraging you from creating content consistently. Lean into the parts of the process you enjoy the most, which will probably be the planning and creating connections, and you’ll start to see those connections lead to relationships and introductions to people who can open more doors.
Don’t lose sight of the benefits a podcast can truly bring to your business. This can happen when you focus exclusively on the numbers and get easily discouraged by low viewership numbers. Instead, focus on how an interview can lead to other opportunities; for instance, interviewing an industry leader can lead to being invited as a speaker to their event. Furthermore, it’ll allow you to pick their brain and position yourself as an industry expert just by having that connection with them.
Pro tip: Before he had his current numbers, Pat was able to get big interviews with figures like Gary Vaynerchuck by timing them just as they were releasing a new book. If you’re looking to get big names, this is when they are far more likely to take every interview opportunity they can to promote their work.
Humanizing Your Brand in the AI Era
A lot of people hesitate on whether or not they should create a personal brand. Pat believes that with the surge of AI, having a brand now becomes even more important. With everyone using AI and automating processes, a personal brand means creating a way for people to connect with you, to create a connection that is just not possible with faceless corporations and automated response systems.
In this sense, he also emphasizes the need to understand what a personal brand is and what it can offer. Basically, you’ll need to have a clear idea of what you stand for, what are your values, and how the work you do reflects that. People want to connect with others who share the same values, which means that not putting yourself out there will make you a human AI no one can relate to.
3 Key Principles for Brand Success
Back in 08, when he recorded that first podcast that never saw the light of day, Pat could’ve never imagined the evolution of his brand and the level of success he’s seen over the years. Like most people, he was afraid of failure and thought he was unprepared to venture into the entrepreneurial world.
With time, he’s discovered experience would be the best teacher and the importance of solving a problem, which is why his guiding principles formed over years in the industry are:
Worry about failing as fast as you can: Pat cautions agency owners against letting perfectionism lead to getting stuck. “The riskiest thing you can do now is play it safe. Bold actions lead to bold results.” Playing it safe can actually prevent you from adapting to changes and trying new things because what worked in the past may not work in the present. To progress and grow, one must be willing to take risks and try new approaches.
Serving first: Focusing on solving a problem for others and providing value will help you build trust, loyalty, and ultimately, financial success. For Pat, this emphasizes the idea your earnings are a byproduct of how well you’re serving your audience. Consider this rather than solely focusing on making money.
Building community: Pat believes in the power of connection and belonging, which he fosters at his agency by creating safe spaces for his clients to come together. It’s not only about finding an audience or how well you serve your audience. It’s also about getting your people to find each other. Strengthening the bond between agency and clients will help future-proof your brand by creating a loyal and engaged community.
Partnerships, Delegation, and Prioritization in Agency Leadership
Pat’s partnership with his now friend and CEO was the leverage he needed to start to transition away from the parts of the business he least enjoyed. Looking back, he realizes he was holding himself and the business back by not letting go sooner. It was not easy for him, as he sometimes regressed to try to get too involved and micromanage the team.
To him, it’s like holding on to a ladder that takes you to a certain height while trying to climb a new one that will take you higher. In the end, as long as there’s open communication and a shared vision between partners, it’s okay to let go and not fear that the agency will get off track. Additionally, Pat underlines there’s no immediate need to train someone as CEO to have that kind of support. You may just need a business manager, which is a common struggle for agency owners.
For those grappling with where to direct their attention and energy, Pat recommends delineating personal and business priorities. "If you haven’t sat down with yourself, your partner, or your team to define your priorities, you’ll feel busy while getting nowhere. Once you do, things will start to align," he advises.
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